Cox Forum

Joined: 18 Jan 2006 Posts: 5

forget it

Joined: 18 Jan 2006 Posts: 5

as above

Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 91 Location: London UK

@ alwun

Shame you removed your comment it made me laugh and it was a safe bet. After all, we've all known the taste of BS for 9 months.
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In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell

Joined: 18 Jan 2006 Posts: 5

Prole

yes and no. This site deserves my best shot rather than a cheapish shot, and although you appreciated it, many might not - and truth to tell it was born of irritation rather than a wish to inform or further debate.

never mind. i notice elsewhere that the forthcoming 'narrative' seems to find the internet itself in the frame for the blame for the 77. this ties in with liar pc blair's already expressed wish to control access to the net.

Joined: 21 Feb 2006 Posts: 7

Was an eastbound Piccadilly Line train involved on July 7th?

Mandy Yu was in the front of the second carriage and was evacuated through the back of the train (Steve Lovegrove, also in the second carriage, went out of the side, through the crossover and down the eastbound to King's Cross http://stevelovegrove.blogspot.com/2006_02_01_stevelovegrove_archive.html). She does not say to which station. She was on her way to work in Islington. She says the explosion was at 0845, 300m from King's Cross, she does not say which way, i.e. north or south. If she evacuated to King's Cross an eastbound train would have to be to the north.

I'm very surprised that there were so many deaths claimed at the King's Cross explosion. I was standing at the front of the second carriage and apart from a couple of voices that were screaming and praying, there were no cries for help that indicated serious injury or even death. Especially as many as 21 or more as reported. People were in a state of shock but remained calm. Is there any information on how they died or how the explosion could have killed them?
Mandy Yu, London
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/4659237.stm

"THICK soot from the tracks flooded through the train; it was so difficult to breathe that people were kneeling down in the carriage to try to get some air. A lady in the first carriage was screaming and screaming. People were praying. We passed messages from carriage to carriage for about 20 minutes in the dim light, saying there was no fire and people should try to stay calm. We had been trapped for more than half an hour when we were evacuated through the back of the train. There were people in the first carriage too shocked to leave their seats, and policemen and London Underground staff were trying to get to the carriage to help them off the train. As soon as I got out of the tunnel I started crying as the shock kicked in.

Mandy Yu, 23, was on her way to work in Islington
http://www.sundayherald.com/50709

Mandy Yu, age 23, was caught in the King's Cross bomb on her way to work in Islington: 'At a quarter to nine, 300 metres into the tunnel from King's Cross, there was a shudder from the front of the train.

'Everything went black, then the emergency lights went on. Thick soot from the tracks flooded through the train; it was so difficult to breathe that people were kneeling down in the carriage to try and get some air. A lady in the first carriage was screaming and screaming. People were praying. We passed messages from carriage to carriage for about 20 minutes in the dim light, saying there was no fire and people should try to stay calm. Some people were trying to open the doors and smash the windows to get out, and to let air in, but were unable to. There was a numb panic as people tried to stay calm. We thought perhaps the train had derailed and had crashed into the tunnel. People were fighting the fear that there would be a fire.

'We had been trapped for more than half an hour when we were evacuated through the back of the train. The power on the tracks had been switched off, and we walked through the tunnel.

'There were people in the first carriage too shocked to leave their seats, and policemen and London Underground staff were trying to get to the carriage to help them leave the train.

http://calbears.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20050708/ai_n14726666

Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 4

joe cells work. peace and love to all. catfish out.
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yeknom eht ta kool t'nod

Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 91 Location: London UK

joe cells work. peace and love to all. catfish out.

Joined: 06 Oct 2005 Posts: 33

Joe Cells- a type of energy which causes implosion rather than explosion.......

dnetrep dna retupmoc ym ta tis tsuj i tub yranoitulover a m'i kniht i......

Joined: 21 Feb 2006 Posts: 7

In Iraq, many, perhaps most, of the American forces in the forward operations areas are essentially pinned down. They stay huddled for safety within their small, fortified (as best possible) bunkers and camps, both rural and urban, emerging only upon direct commands, to conduct their assigned patrols and sweeps while looking first and ever more exclusively to their own survival in all regards. They are literally stressed and terrified out of their minds, and most of them are also physically ill, many seriously so, from the effects of Depleted Uranium poisoning. Many of them, especially with their psychopathic "leaders" giving them almost carte blanche to do such, have taken on a "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" modus operendi, at all times and in all circumstances when they're outside of their bunkers.
http://www.iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/85004

Joined: 21 Feb 2006 Posts: 7

fjl on R's blog:

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 54

Happy Easter Seth [one of my readers]and everyone else. Tim, [another commenter] I agree with you that it is important to engage out of the comfort zone and for that reason will pop up at Harry's Place or on other blogs where people disagree and try to put my case.

In terms of the 'conspiracy theorists'/'false flag researchers'/'independent internet investigators 'or what ever they want to call themselves this week, I do think I have engaged enough.

I have engaged in pages of debate on Alex Cox's blog, on the British 9/11 truth boards, on urban 75 and on my own website. I have been invited to one of their meetings and have attended with another survivor, and they have attended the book launch where I and Milan and others spoke. I have read the Antagonist's blog, team 8 plus boards, Bridget Dunne's blog, officialconfusion, whatreallyhappened, 77truth and all the alternative theories that have been put my way or linked on the 'official version' challengers sites.

I have found nothing, not one thing to convince me that they have any merit in their theories that it was not the 4 named young men and that it was not suicide bombs.

Since July 7th I have also spoken to police, many other survivors from all 4 sites, investigative news journalists and politicians, medical staff and fire officers, LU staff, some of whom I now count as friends. I do not believe they are lying to me or engaged in a cover up. I do not believe that there is a false story, one that they or I and everyone else is willingly or unwillingly or unknowingly complicit in.

I have given this subject of 'alternative theories about July 7th' enough time, I have contributed extensively and publicly to the debate and I have seen that whilst some on 'the other side' seek to make common cause with me, and are friendly and well-intentioned, I personally do not wish to make common cause with them. This is not because of the high levels of personal vitriol that are directed at me by some of their number, but because I think, however well-intentioned they may be, the fact that they deny a suicide bomb plot which resulted in mass murder and maimings and injury to hundreds is inappropriate.

I think it is inappropriate to deny the Holocaust took place. I also think it is inappropriate to deny the suicide bombings took place, in the face of all the evidence.

I repeat, I have read and engaged with all the questions they have, and I will give them one point: the bombers probably got an earlier train than the one initially suspected. This does not make a conspiracy.There are indeed some inconsistencies in a multi-sourced ongoing news story and a continuing police investigation. IMO this is only to be expected and does not indicate a mass conspiracy.

I note that those who relentlessly question what they term the 'official version' do not have a credible alternative theory of their own, nor any evidence to support it, save selective hearsay. ( Please note: we are still awaiting the official version, what you have is news reports, analysis and witness accounts thus far)

When the own families of the bombers have accepted their guilt, when everything I have seen and heard with my own experience, when everyone I have spoken to whom I trust checks out and when the only people who posit a false flag theory are a group of people who have no personal experience of the July London bombs, no contacts within the 7/7 investigation, no first hand knowledge of the dreadful events whatsoever; moreover who clearly have an agenda that begins with the presupposition that it is all a conspiracy involving, variously, the UK and US govts, the security services, the police, the New World Order, the Zioinists, Jews, Illuminati, Masons...then I am going to say this.

Enough. No, I do not see what benefit a third meeting, or giving the further oxygen of publicty to such people would have. It is not up to me, a survivor to 'defend' what they call 'my' 'official version' in a public meeting. It is not 'my' version. It is the truth, backed up by evidence, as found out by real investigators, not internet sleuths. It is YOUR 'alternative' version that runs against everyone else, is a tiny minority viewpoint and one which I find offensive, personally. If you have been the victim of a crime it is not pleasant to have a bunch of strangers claim you are complicit in it, it never happened, or that the perpetrator was innocent. To then be the subject of personal insults, nasty insinuations and smears, to have your personal details posted up on the internet and your work phone number and email address given out ( as a rape victim I have a legal right to anonymity whch everyone bar the conspiracy theorists respects) is unpleasant in the extreme. And I wonder at the motivations of those who do such things and then say that they care for the victims of 7/7. My own experience with them shows that they do not, they care only for theories and conspiracies and they do not care if chasing such fantasies causes pain to those who know what they say to be untrue.

I am not meeting you people any more, not opening myself up to further attacks, IT IS NOT MY RESPONSIBILTY to defend myself from your fantasies and to give your version of events any credibility at all.

I have I hope distanced my calls for an independent and wideranging public enquiry from the extremists within the '9/11 truth movement' and the conspiracy theorists. I seek to learn why this happened and what can be done to save lives and spare suffering and improve communication in the future. I do not seek to apportion blame, I want an enquiry for positive reasons because I believe there is much to learn, and since the ordinary people of the general public run the risks and as the threat is UK citizens against fellow citizens, then the public should be involved in and contributing to dialogue, policy decision and making their views known.

Doubtless you will yet again suspect an 'agenda' because I have wearied of this contact with you and refused your request for a third meeting. I would like you to consider this:

I have enaged with you often and publicly for months.
I have heard what you say and read what you have sent me, I have followed your arguments and tested them myself. I do not find them at all convincing, and I do not see that you even have a credible alternative version of events that checks out, or can be supported with any evidence at all.

I am the victim of a crime, I am the victim of a terrorist atrocity, I am a survivor of the worst peacetime bomb attack in the UK, I have walked from a ruined carriage and the screams of the dying. I live with the memories of this every day. I have been signed off work for a month with exhaustion as I tried too long to manage my job, my life, my work, my writing, my recovery with the nightmares and PTSD symptoms that haunt my dreams. I should like you to respect this and to leave me alone now please as I try to move on with my life. I have my reasons for being interested in the subject of July 7th: it is a day when for the second time in my life I was the random victim of attempted murder and great violence by a stranger. The attack on 7 July was not an attack on me, but an attack on many, and one in which many died and many were terribly wounded, physically and mentally. As you know, since many of you have expressed sorrow and sympathy for this.

After both attacks on my life I have sought justice and healing and to try to bring something positive out of the whole experience. Some will say it is not justice since the 7/7 bombers had no trial. I say this: they are dead, their families have accepted their guilt, from their remains and DNA and the evidence that places them there, with bombs, and plots to kill, at the scene. I can find no reason why the police, the families of the bombers and everyone else is lying, I say they are guilty, and dead, and justice is now best served by looking at why they did it and what we can do to prevent more deaths and more anger and more despair in the future.

I do not think justice or healing is served by picking fights with the survivor of a suicide bomb, not by trying to convert her to a set of theories which she has already explained she finds to be untruthful and offensive.

Let this be an end to your contact with me, please: I want no more of it, please accord me this respect as an ordinary passenger, twice-victim of terrible crimes, who was asked by fellow survivors to speak out, who has continued to try to engage with the events of July 7th to find healing and hope, who is part of a group of passengers and rescuers who did not know each other before that July morning but who have drawn comfort from each other's shared experiences, who is not a Spook nor a Spy not a Shill nor a Liar but an ordinary office worker in the advertising department of a commercial publishing firm, daughter of a priest, fiancee of a solicitor, part-time writer since the bombs gave me a voice, peace campaigner and teller of truths.

Please pass this message on to those who will read it since I cannot post these last words on the 9/11 board. To those of you who have bothered my family, I ask you to desist, for pity's sake. I see that you are passionate and that you believe that you are right. I wish that you would use that passion for more hopeful and fruitful ends rather than to mire yourselves in whispered conspiracies and paranoid lies. I wish that you would seek to engage with a clear head and an honest heart with those working for peace, who seek to stay the hand of those who use violence, whoever they are and wherever they are found. I forgive the insults against me, and I ask you to let go of your anger towards me, I am not your enemy. I wish you clarity and truth in the end. And hope: you seem to have so little hope, only such dark suspicions.

Happy Easter and peace be with you all.

Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 73

I am willing to believe that the four accused (who have tried and convicted by the media) were the bombers and that they blew up the trains and bus in question (though which trains, and how they got from Luton to central London still seems to be confused and uncertain - which it should not be.)
But despite having read Rachel's long, self-pitying post, and Timothy Garton Ash's latest fantasy of dirty bombs in London http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1757027,00.html, I can't understand why neither she nor the illustrious don from St Anthony's isn't asking:
1. Who ordered the Visor terror-bombing excercise to take place at the same time?
2. How many people were involved in it, what did it do, and how did it 'go live'?
3. Were the four bombers aware of the exercise, and if so, who tipped them off about it?
4. Did the four bombers imagine themselves to be a part of the Visor exercise?
4. is the most troubling question for me. The Antagonist, Prole, and the whole 7/7 truth movement, are quite right to demand answers.

Joined: 21 Apr 2006 Posts: 1

7/7 - The London Bombings, Islam & the Iraq War

Report of Milan Rai Book Launch - Yeovil April 20th, 2006

Organised in conjunction with Yeovil Stop The War Coalition

Total in attendance = 15 (including Milan)

Average age of attendees >60

Youngest in audience = possibly me (very sad)!

Milan opened the meeting by speaking for about 30 minutes on the way in which the media manipulates public awareness of key events by using techniques such as:

- Burying key information deep inside the paper/article.
- self censorship.
- speculation and conjecture presented as fact.
- manipulation of facts to influence readers opinion.

Interestingly over 90% of the references in Milan's book on 7/7 are quoted as being from newspapers. When a member of the audience asked him whether he had contacted the journalist over a specific issue, he stated that he had not!

The local Chairman then proposed that Milan take three questions at a time and then respond to each. After about nine questions , the Chairman gave me an opportunity to address my question to Milan

I opened by reminding Milan of a comment he made in his book on Naom Chomsky, where he wrote:

Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 4

I was always led to believe that in this country people where innocent until they are proven guilty, but perhaps I was living under a misapprehension. Apologies in advance for any spelling mistakes.
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yeknom eht ta kool t'nod

Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 91 Location: London UK

A couple of articles that have appeared in the Guardian recently that show how much the quest for the truth about 7th July has moved on. Some of the issues that were discussed on this thread (thanks to Alex) have now made it into the MSM, something many of us would not have envisaged all those months ago. Cheers:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,,1806794,00.html