Cox Forum

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 50

I suggest you all have a read of this for starters

http://www.london.gov.uk/assembly/resilience/index.jsp

Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 15

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 50

If people on a forum were posting that your fiancee didn't die in a car crash and that you were a liar for saying so, what would your response be, Chavez?

Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 23 Location: London UK

I for one are glad you are back Rachel and I hope we can engage in an adult and respectful way.

Alkymst made some very important points about the Peter Power Visor Consultants exercise that took place that same morning.

Peter Power has a very interesting history in the Met and also on the tube. He was also second in command at the Libyan Peoples' Bureau siege where a policewomen was shot. It is now known that the shot did not come from the embassy.

Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 15

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 50

Chavez, I am not saying that your fiancee didn't die in a car crash, and I am very sorry that you have suffered such terrible trauma. But I am asking you to empathise, surely someone like you who has suffered can see my point - can't you see that I was in a carriage where 26 people died feet away, and then how upset I might be to be told that I am a liar for saying so?

Prole I am writing a response tp your question, will be back in a moment

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 50

Bridget,

I can see that this on the surface looks very interesting.

However, I am satisfied by the Channel 4 debunking.
http://www.channel4.com/news/special-reports/special-reports-storypage.jsp?id=372

If you were a large comany that employed 1000+ people, then one of the things you would look at is what would happen in the event of a crisis. Mostr companies have some sort of contingency plans, especially since 9/11. Even tiny companies have regular fire drills! Agreed?

TfL did have a big practise using real people at Bank station and this was covered in the media. But the Visor practice seems to have been a standard 'on paper' exercise. All wild speculation has failed to pick up on th eobvious, basic point.

As to Power's background, well, with his previous training it is a sensible idea to set yourself up as a security expert as a career next step, for he clearly has the skills to be one.

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 50

That one ex- special forces soldier converted to a militaristic form of Islam is not that surprising either.

And that young men are drawn to a gung-ho, theology-lite, action- heavy ideology, that encourages macho pursuits like white water rafting and survivalist exercises to train for 'jihad', along with the watching of atrocity DVDS, following inflammatory sermons and raising money to 'fight a holy war ' - in Afghanistan, Iraq or on the tubes of London - is sadly not that surprising either. A cursory trawl through the idealogies of 'Islamic' extremist ideaology and websites, talking to local Muslims who were outraged and who complained about the takeover of my local mosque at Finsbury Park - subesequently revealed to be full of 'jihad' literature, wannabe combatants and survival/fighting manuals and even convertible weapons - proves the point still further.

Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 23 Location: London UK

Rachel, I take it you cannot even remotely consider that the intellegence services fund and plant operatives in Muslim areas? That the intellegence services are behind most of the events which lead to 'problem - reaction - solution'? In your mind what we are told is an 'Islamofascist' idealogy is what is really behind all these events?

Read: http://antagonise.blogspot.com/2006/02/islam-intelligence-and-infiltration.html

It seems to many of us that the only people who benefit from any of these events (including the staged protests against the Danish cartoons) are not Muslims, but the true beneficiaries of this war OF terror, the State (be it US or UK) and Corporate Capitalism.
_________________
In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 50

Of course intelligence service have spies in Muslim areas; a young man - at my local mosque in Finsbury Park was asked by m15 to report on Hamza and did so. Other local Muslims also tipped off the authorities about the fanatical hate campaign flourishing there uider the extremist preacher's teaching.

I suggest you google David Leppard who has much interesting stuff to say on the subject; he is an investigative reporter for the Sunday Times and has done a lot of stuff on the rise of Islamic extremism and the leaks from M15 about how they have struggled to tackle the problem. (No, I am not just going on about him because I have also written for a different bit of the ST BTW)

Prole - all of you - why cannot you accept that there really is an extreme Islamofacist ideaology and that some unfortuntely practise and preach it?

When conspiracy theorists say that it is all the doing of the State this is eagerly picked up by its followers, for this allows them to absolve themselves of blame for the murderous terror acts - they blame the State for doing it, they blame the State for instigating it, they blame the State for ''stirring it up against Muslims'' - they blame everyone but themselves for it, they even seek to justify it - they won't accept it for what it is - mass murder - instead they call it a war - and they blame ordinary people for it and elected leaders for it and they bomb them.

I don't agree with the occupation of Iraq. At all. But I am not going to suicide bomb people to make that point. And I am not going to run around the internet saying that dark forces of the State have an agenda to bomb trains in order to make us all get behind an oil war - for this is nonsense. Supprt for the war has declined , Blair's popularity has declined, unfortunately some anti-terror legislation and draconian legislation like ID cards has got through. Yes, Blair's government are trying to use the 'war on terror' for their own ends but this is cynical manipulation of an existing situation - there really are extremists and there really is a political idealogy masquerading as a religion and it bombed 3 trains & a bus on 7th July, or young men who believed in it did.

And this political ideaology pretending to be a religion is doing a very great deal of damage to ordinary Muslims.

Conspiracy theories are not harmless; it is convenient to say 'oh it is all the shadowy Government agents ' and there is no such thing as Islamofacism - but I am afraid that there is. I wish that you would face up to this. I can't understand why you won't even consider it?

I am not a fan of the Government. I believe the illegal Iraq war and the aggressive reaction to 9/11 has contributed to the rise of extreme and violent idealogies. I do, however have no problem believing that such ideaologies exist: I have seen them in action.

Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 15

I'm frankly sick of you spinning lies for the government. Why don't you grow some brain cells and ask real questions about what happened on 7/7?

ALL YOUR LIES ARE DOING A GREAT DEAL OF DAMAGE TO ORDINARY MUSLIMS

At present, the London underground has an analogue video network and video transmission at 180 stations. Confirmed by new reports, there are close to two thousand video cameras which monitor London's Underground and mainline rail stations.

It is estimated that "the average Briton is caught on various cameras up to 300 times on a normal day." (The Age, 8 July 2005).

The key issue raised in this commentary refers to videocameras inside the underground carriages. In most European metro systems, the trains are equipped with a videowatch installation, with video cameras inside each carriage. The driver of the train is able to see inside each of the carriages, and the digital video files would be available to police investigators.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EVERY London bus and Underground train car has multiple Video Cameras!

The Police claim the bus videos malfunctioned, but made no similar claim about the video cameras in the Underground train cars. The Muslim men are claimed to have ridden from Luton to King's Cross where they split up to take separate trains. I've also read it takes about 25 minutes to ride from Luton station to where the bombs were detonated.

Therefore, there MUST be some 25 minutes continuous video of first four men, riding from Luton, then video of each (supposed) "Muslim" Bomber, seated with his rucksack on each of the 3 separate Underground cars, riding from King's Cross - to where the 3 bombs exploded SIMULTANEOUSLY!

If the London Police CANNOT produce those videos they SHOULD possess, the accused 4 men, 3 supposedly with rucksack bombs, were NOT on the Underground train cars, did NOT detonate bombs! And the Police are LYING.

The 3 young men from Leeds apparently were innocent "patsies" used in a "False Flag" phoney Blair Government instigated "terrorist" attack! They weren't suicide bombers, or deceived dupes. They WEREN'T on the trains!

Instead of 3 falsely accused Muslim "patsies," either unidentified "others" must have carried on and detonated the bombs - OR the bombs were ALREADY concealed under seats, or UNDER the subway cars - and detonated by REMOTE CONTROL!

It troubles me as to why you are perpetraiting certain lies instead of investigating the situation.

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 50

You have not been able to provide one shred of evidence for what you say
I do not work for the Government.
There are no CCTV cameras on the Piccadilly line as far as I know but I am not an expert on what tube carriages are fitted with, I am a passenger who uses the Picadilly line to get to work. Even if there were cameras, I expect that they would have been destroyed when most of the carriage exploded. And since there is an ongoing police investigation, why do you expect all the evidence to be out there - that is not the way with police investigations , nor is it anything to get in a flap about.

This is tiresome and pointless, talking to you Chavez, since you won't even accept that I am what I am. I do not support your hypothesis.Nor do most people. I have every right not to, and it strikes me that whatever proof anyone provides you are not going to accept it, just as you are not going to accept who it is you are talking to. You are insistent that I am not real. So there is no point continuing to talk to you, you just rail at me but you don't discuss.

I am not going to engage with people who cannot accept this simple basic fact that they are talking to a woman who was on the train on that day.

Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 23 Location: London UK

I aked London Underground about the CCTV cameras on the trains and here is their reply:

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 50

My guess is that they don't have the pictures: certainly most of the carriage I was on was destroyed. so I would doubt that CCTV footage existed now. Even if they did have the pictures, it would be very unsettling and distasteful to have the image of the bomber surrounded by passengers, blowing himself up - for victims and survivors especially, and for the public at large.

Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 23 Location: London UK

So what 'evidence' do you base your knowledge of who was reponsible for the events of 7th July on then, Rachel?
_________________
In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell