Cox Forum

Joined: 25 Dec 2005 Posts: 4

my my, nerves do get fraught, in the realm of information dispersal and disposal, wherein rachaels task lies, to dilute and distract from folks openly sharing pertinent information. I must entirely agree with chavez that rachael seems to have far too much time on her hands to be re-educating us poor deluded conspiracy theorists, evangelising for just an acceptance that it was ofcource those angry arabs, rather than an investagation of the facts. As she laments over the terrible mauling metered out by the savage wingnuts on a poor bombing victim, you can even hear the splash of crocidle tears. Maybe she is a lizard?

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 14

Are you surprised that a survivor of a train bomb is, erm, interested in what happened to her, and annoyed when people take my original posts and blog entries and use them out of context to construct inane theories? Annoyed enough to come over and put the record straight? See, I don't like people twisting my words and telling lies in my name. I don't like being quoted and misquoted out of context to support a made up version of an event that profoundly shocked me and killed and injured dozens.

What's your excuse for spending time thinking about 7th July - were you there too?

And they weren't Arabs, you berk. They were British Muslims.

Sometimes this is like shooting fish in a barrel

Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 8

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 14

What 'proof' do you expect someone who got on a train and was 7-10 feet from a suicide bomber to have about her person, please?

Apart from the eyewitness testimony of herself, and the dozens of fellow survivors in the group called Kings Cross United, now comprising 79 passengers from 311 train, 2 police officers attending the scene from Kings Cross, the 2 train drivers of 311 and station staff from Russell Square? Our evidence, my evidence has been given to the Met in the form of statements, and they also have the clothes & shoes I was wearing that day as forensic evidence of course. Unfortunately for you, the evidence goes to the police, no tto sad conspiracy theorist losers who have nothing better to do than fling out random insults to bomb victims.

I'm so sorry, tsk, I forgot to take a documentary film crew with me on my journey to work on 7th July. That'll be because I am an ordinary commuter, who works in an office, see, so I don't wander round London attended by forensic investigators and documentary or news film crews. Do you?

And when the bomb went off, and I was hurled to the floor, temporarily blinded by the choking black smoke and deafened by the bang - guess what? My thoughts were only of survival - mine and that of the passengers with me, of evacuating those who were still alive, still had all their limbs, those who could still walk - to safety down the tunnel to Russell Square. Meanwhile the other passengers remained trapped underground in a narrow tunnel, with no driver communication, unable to leave the train, breathing in smoke, stuck in a tunnel 70 feet down, unsure if the tracks were still live, unsure if they were going to be choked or burned to death, listening to the screams of the injured. How do I know this? Because I am in contact with dozens of them. I go to the pub with themonce a month, we swap emails, see how we are doing. We try to look after each other, to continue our journey after 7th July.

I'd like you to provide 'proof' of your journey to work on July 7th. Oh, can't you provide any?

What an idiot. How dare you call me a liar? On what grounds do you call me a liar? Are you denying I was on the train? Are you denying a bomb went off? What else do you deny? The Holocaust?

People like you disgust me. What do you hope to achieve by this puerile behaviour? I can you a liar, right back at you, and I call you a stupid troll who should think before they post, but it's hardly worth it. What are you contributing to this discussion? Who, the f*ck are you, frankly? I'm guessing a fifteen year old boy without a girlfriend or social life who isn't actually worth the last 6 minutes of my time. Which cheers me up, somewhat. At least I can have a laugh at you.

I'm still on 'instant notification' of posts here on this 'discusion forum', and so I popped in whilst I am at work to see if anything meaningful has been contributed to a discussion of events that still affects me and hundreds of other bereaved families and fellow survivors every single damn day.

Doesn't look like it, but I live in hope. Instead, I routinely get called 'liar' by internet w*nkers who know very little and have even less to contribute than a concerned member of the public or fellow Londoner who has followed the news and taken an interest in the events of that day. Well, I hope you are proud of yourself. You have randomly insulted a person who was on a bombed train and caused her to spend 6 minutes pointing out that you are a twat of the highest order. Does that feel good? May I recommend if you want to vent your need to behave like a twat you try here instead? It should suit you down to the ground.

http://www.sissyfight.com/

Joined: 28 Dec 2005 Posts: 5

Here is a reply from Transport for London, the people that run the London underground:

Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 8

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 14

You will doubtless not be thrilled to know that I have just called TFl who are going to investigate why they are giving out the wrong number of the train, and send me official confirmation, which I will publish on my blog.

Cheers. I'll put it up as soon as I have the official email confirming one train, the 311, was bombed, travelling Westbound from Kings Cross on th emorning of 7th July.

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 14

Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 5 Location: London UK

I would also like to ask Rachel if she or any of the other survivors who make up Kings Cross United have ever questioned the police over the lack of CCTV images from that morning? I notice on your blog that you have met with them:

Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 5 Location: London UK

BTW, Rachel, I for one am 'thrilled' that you are contacting TFL to question them on why they are giving out the wrong train number for the Piccadilly Line and why they changed it from 311 to 331 in the first place.

It is precisely this questioning of the 'facts', such as the time the train left Luton that morning, that has led so many of us into investigating these events.
_________________
In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 14

You forget that this is an ongoing criminal investigation, that it would be highly irresponsible of the police to release material used in a criminal investigation to survivors, and that the primary purpose of Kings Cross United is not to provide some kind of of question-answering serice for the more sceptical to parade their pet theories past?

And oddly, gawping at police footage of the men who tried to murder has has less appeal than going to the pub and trying to get on with our lives?

And it is not the Chief Constable, nor his Deputy, nor the police officers who rescued passengers job to provide CCTV images to victims who are being asked questions by conspiracy theorists. They have other work to do and are not working on Operation T*******, the forensic and criminal investigation related to 7th July.

You do have some odd ideas.

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 14

Good, Bridget I am glad you are also pleased that we are shortly to be able to clear up this nonsense about 'a missing 5th train' and 5 suicide bomber stooges for once and for all.

Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 8

Don't expect Rachel to ask any real questions or provide evidence to support her emotive BS. She is using the skeptics to help police fill holes in their fictional account of 7/7 which frames a bunch of innocent guys from Leeds. There is NO PROOF WHATSOEVER they were even in London on 7/7 regardless of whatever emotion or insult Rachel uses to shroud the truth.

Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 5 Location: London UK

Rachel, the problems that I have with the argument that "as this is an ongoing criminal investigation these images have not been released" are:

1. This has not been the issue for the 21/7 incidents, where there will be a court case in the far distant future.

2. Images have been placed in the public domain of the so-called rehearsal on 28/6. Images that are far clearer than the one produced from Luton on 7/7/05.

3. An image of Hasib Hussain exiting Boots onto the Kings X concourse at 9am (when we are told the station was being evacuated) has been released.

4. One image (a still) from Luton station time-stamped 07.21.54 7/7/05 is the only 'evidence' we have of four young men carrying rucksacks that morning. This image has been questioned for it's authenticity, apart from the fact that it shows only one discernible face.

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/5195/lutonmix29wy.gif

These are just a few of the many questions that surround the lack of images from that morning.

Just imagine what it must be like for the parents of Hasib Hussain who are told that their son was partly responsible for the carnage that morning? Who phoned the casualty line to report him missing. How about some evidence for the widow of Mohammed Siddiqui Khan, who has since miscarried their second child. Relatives who will never hear the case against their nearest and dearest, because there will never be a day in court to hear the story of these 4 young men.

How about some evidence for those of us who believe that this is not a war on terror but a war OF terror. not a coalition of the willing but a coalition of the Killing.

Just, how about some evidence to support the official version?
_________________
In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell

Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 14

I really am at a loss as to what 'evidence' you expect me, a passenger from the bombed train to provide, this is to Chavez who is clearly trolling, as well as Bridget.

Chavez, please answer the question: what 'evidence' do you expect a passenger travelling to work on a train that was bombed to provide? Apart from the evidence I have already given - police statements, clothing worn at the time of the incident investigated for forensic analysis, published first person accounts and testifying to have met many of my fellow passengers train drivers and police officers involved with my train on that day?

Until you answer the question, I will ignore you - because you appear to be trolling. What 'evidence' do you want me to provide? And what 'evidence' do you have to call me a liar?

Answer me or get lost. I will treat your calls of liar with the same disdain I do the local drunk who bellows insults at everyone passing the park bench.

Now, onto Bridget. Bridget, I wonder what evidence you want me to provide?

I am not going to ask those involved on the day to try to get hold of photographs to satisfy your personal curiosity. The police officers are BTP officers and they evacuated the train amidst scenes of carnage. They are not CID and they are not working on the 7th July investigation. I am not going to waste police time.

By the way, BTP told me about people standing around at stations and timing trains, measuring angles of the sun by CCTV cameras and generally making a nuisance of themselves, diverting police resource away from their work as they had to be monitored in case they were terrorists. I wonder if that was you? If it was, can you please try and have some awareness of how such actions waste time and money and effort as the police have to watch you and make sure that you are not terrorists planning an attack!

Images of the bombers HAVE been put in the public doman, but you personally are unsatisfied with it. Well, that does not surprise me at all. I am sure that even the video of Khan is probably denounced by you as a fake. I am sure that however many images appeared, you would still denounce them all as fakes. If I had filmed Lindsey exploding on the train - how, I don't know, since everyone near him on that packed train pretty much died or was terribly injured and most people are not in the habit of filming their tube journeys and the passengers near them - I am sure you WOULD STILL NOT BELEIVE IT. Whatever I say, whatever anyone who does not hold the same 'beliefs' as you says, you will still denounce it all as lies and evidence of a giant conspiracy.

And that is the problem: unlike an investiagtive journalist you don't start from a neutral perspective. You, and other conspiracy theorists start with a belief that everything is a giant lie, and you then go looking for evidence to support this supposition . It's a hobby, or an obsession, and it might seem harmless enough but it is not harmless and it does have consequences, as I have tried to show. You and the Antagonist have claimed to be motivated by compassion for the victims, but really, I don't think that is the primary objective you have at all. Does it not make you feel uncomfortable when the survivors of the event that you are claiming to be investigating turn round and say that the theory of the 331 'fifth train', for example, is nonsense?

On your blog and on the Antagonist's blog I have answered your questions and repeatedly asked you: What do you really think happened? Why the determination to discredit what you term 'the official story'?

I have recently finished an excellent draft copy of a book by Milan Rai, called '7/7 and the Iraq war'. It answers many of the questions which you and others who believe ' the Leeds bombers were framed' and I do urge you to read it when it is published. It is hard for people to accept homegrown, self-started suicide bombers, hard to understand what happened, but I have seen nothing, heard nothing, nothing at all to prove otherwise. I know someone who saw Lindsey enter my train. I was injured in the explosion, I have a scar on my wrist where shrapnel was removed. Regardless of my cynicism about the Bush administration, and the Blair Government, I have still found absolutely nothing to make me look upon your version - the Antagonist's version - or any of the other conspiracy theories doing the rounds are true. I note, in passing, how the theoroes morph and constantly change to keep pace with emerging evidence and greater understanding of the events - with wry amusement .I have seen nothing - nothing to convince me at all that what I saw and felt and have heard and seen with the evidence of my own senses is a lie - and that what you say, sat at a desk, typing onto a computer - or hanging around stations - has any merit and is in any way truthful.

Not only that, but nobody else I have spoken to who was there does either.

Power surges? Five bombed trains? Suppressed evidence? Bombs under the train? Changed times of explosions? Silenced drivers? I have taken all this on and I have answered you on each count. Yet you do not pay much attention.

Now, feverish imaginings are all very well, in the privacy of your home, but when I am called a liar, by liars , and a fantasist, by fantasists, in public, then I will challenge it. When my truth is dismissed as lies, when my fellow passengers accounts disbelieved and are smeared and when survivors and bereaved are distressed to read nonsense, then I will answer you. You pit this out. You get it back. You ask questions. You may not like the answers.

Clearly nothing than a taped confession of the lead bomber will satisfy you - oh, but you have it. Clearly nothing but CCTV images of the bombers will do - oh, but you have that too. Clearly evidence of the bombers practising, demonstratign intent is needed - oh, but you have that too. Whatever you are provided with - like a real live person pointing out to you where you are wrong, on your blog and telling you that your 'investiagtions' have little merit - is NOT SUFFICIENT FOR YOU TO CHANGE YOUR PRECONCEIEVED POINT OF VIEW.

Well- this is starting to look less like an independent investigation and more like a dogmatically-held set of beliefs, is it not? And does that not immediately invalidate and attempt by you, or The Antagonist, or any of the other conspiracy theorists to pass yourselves off as 'independent. '

There may be the odd anomaly in the version we all have, comprised from many, many sources - forensic investiagtion, witness accounts, and so on. That is to be expected by all but the most paranoid and literal -minded fundementalist. Journalists reporting facts are not always 100% accurate, all of the time. But at least they try to report facts and they don't start off with an agenda so obvious that I wonder how you have the nerve to claim you are independent. Nancy Drew looks adept next to you.

But let us look at what you and the other conspiracy theorists offer. Nothing but questions, only questions, without any evidence to back up your claims. When evidence is presented, it is dismissed, when questions are answered, surprise, more questions only mushroom in their place. There is not one sinlge thing that you all agree on - there is a conspiracy theory to match every conspiracy theorist. Nothing satisfies you but askign questions, questions. Which tells you something. You cannot agreee on anything, nor provide an account or evidence to justify your imaginings. And ' a vague sense of foreboding' or 'well, 9/11 seems a bit dodgy to me so July 7th must be JUST THE SAME - ' ( why? Why does that follow? Is Madrid part of the plot too, by the way?) just does not cut it, I'm afraid.

And I'm also afraid the trollish insults flung about by the likes of Chavez and others let the side down still further.

I am no fan of HMG, I am, I was always against the illegal occupation of Iraq, I think Bush is a vile & corrupt man and his administration a threat to non-millionaire humanity. I do not however use these feelings as 'evidence' to support a paranoic distrust and a general ignoring of all the facts & evidence at my disposal.

Until I can see some evidence to support your claims - any of you - then I will continue to laugh, be irritated and pop in here on my lunch hour to see if a single one of the 'truth seekers' have managed to cobble together a modicum of an argument or even a theory to support your claims. Oh I forget, you don't 'make claims'. You only ask questions.

Well, here is a question for you all:

Can you prove to me specifically that 7/7 was a psy-ops/staged/fake/ operation in any way at all? Can you answer your own questions with any evidence that support your theories? And no, I don't want a rehash of Peter Power and the Visor thing, which has been discredited a page ago - nor do I want soem half baked nonsense about Northwoods or staring at goats.

I can sit here and ask questions too: I can question whether conspiracy theorists have a grip on reality. I question whether they are mentally ill, paranoid. I question why they bother. I question why I bother coming here, actually, but as you all love asking questions so much I am sure you won't mind me joining in the fun.